gfish: (Default)
gfish ([personal profile] gfish) wrote2005-11-21 03:49 pm

Some political ramblings

Troop withdrawal would be a 'victory for the terrorists': Cheney

The thing is, I agree with him. Abandoning Iraq now will just leave an ugly mess of a failed state, kill tens of thousands of people in a nasty civil war, and generally provide a far better base of operations to the bad guys than Somalia or Afghanistan ever was, all while further eroding our moral authority.

That said, Cheney's statement is disingenuous in that implies the alternative is better in some way. Unfortunately, us staying in Iraq is also a victory for the terrorists. Man, there is nothing more dumb than maneuvering yourself into a lose-lose situation. I understand having a strategy fail. It happens. But to get yourself into a situation with no winning solution out of willful ignorance, that's just dumb.

It's nice to see the Dems start to regain a backbone, but I sure wish they would actively define the discourse better. Talking in terms of false opposites just plays into Karl Rove's hands. I'm glad the recent GOP attempt at memetic engineering (the 'rewriting history' charge) doesn't seem to have stuck, but I suspect that is more because of their current political troubles than due to any sudden lack of rhetorical genius on their part. Until we develop our ability to quickly and powerfully label concepts in our favor, this technique is going to continue to be a power tool for the right. The Dems need to forget about sound-bites (which only target the mass media, very last century) and focus on this level of lexical manipulation (which can define the very nature of how everyone thinks about the issue, and only get stronger every time someone uses them).

[identity profile] craigp.livejournal.com 2005-11-22 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
we caused the mess, and we should be ashamed and hold ourselves (and in particular our leaders) accountable. pulling out now (or soon, say after the december elections) is the best way to diffuse the tensions; staying longer will only make things worse (both for ourselves and iraqi's).

we've killed tens of thousands of iraqi civilians; i don't think it's a given that they'll do worse.

if it wasn't for mistake after mistake (eg: abu ghraib), we could have avoided or at least salvaged this mess. we need a political, not military solution at this point. what else can we possibly do militarily?

[identity profile] randomdreams.livejournal.com 2005-11-23 07:22 am (UTC)(link)
I don't know. The best I can think of is get the UN to 'take over' and call the shots, and we supply the muscle. Kind of like calling your boss to tell you what to do, when you've screwed up, and you do the sweeping.

[identity profile] grinninfoole.livejournal.com 2005-11-24 05:27 am (UTC)(link)
That will still mean American soldiers at the forefront, so that won't really change anything. As I see it, we have two choices: either leave, whatever happens, or stay, whatever happens. Personally, I don't see how leaving will make things any worse, and it will make a number of things better. It will, for one thing, be cheaper.